Base Damage

[Ashy_Larry]

Alright so I notice that when players drop below 5 v 5, base damage automatically disables. I want to try to explain why I think this creates some problems which are common sense. The strategy of tribes is not just defending / capturing a flag but defending an entire base. This may sound like an insignificant distinction but it is not. Whether or not my gens and invs can be destroyed is a fact that changes the way every single map is played (with exception of bloodbath) If my gens can't be destroyed, then I don't have to spend time protecting them. My offensive strategy obviously changes. I can't do anything to stop my enemy from throwing up defenses. The game then becomes quite one-dimensional. Play becomes nothing more than futile assaults on the flag which get nowhere. The way I build my defense then can also become quite careless and less planned.

How often is the game actually at 5 v 5? For a good part of every day, there quite simply aren't that many players on. Then suddenly in the middle of a game, you get 5 v 5 and the whole strategy has to change because you already built a defense on the premise that the gens were not able to be destroyed...then it switches. When this changes repeatedly in a game, it very quickly gets annoying. The efforts made all of a sudden don't matter. You spend 15 minutes trying to break the defenses of an enemy base, get to the gen and all of a sudden someone leaves the game, base damage is disabled, and your time and contribution to the game was totally wasted. Also what happens when teams are uneven, when instead of 5 v 5, we have 7 on 3 or 6 on 4 instead? We have a voting option to enable/disable base damage. But it does no good when the number of players force the system to override the vote. Why have the voting option at all?

We really ought to be supporting mods that enhance the basic and overall strategy of Tribes, not alter it and I don't think this is a change that enhances the game at all but rather makes it less fair for all and certainly more confusing and difficult for new (and old) players. I hope to get some feedback and to see this changed back to the way it was.

[Puppetmaster]

Base damage should be disabled when it's 7 vs. 3 and you have the 7 raping the 3. That's not strategy, that's being a dick.

[DaJ4ck3L]

D is always good, whether the Gens are killable or not. I feel this will help games where good D players are on one side, and no D players on another. If the server is 6v6+, which happens often daily, then there's a better chance of the teams both having at least one decent D player.

[DaRk]

I wouldn't necessarily agree Ashy. I could begin the map by raping your gens and continue doing so the rest of the map. The rest of my team would rape your flag or vice versa. Makes for a quick and boring game. I did this just the other day for 5 maps in a row. I'm pretty sure the other team was not having fun.

[Ashy_Larry]

D is always good, whether the Gens are killable or not. I feel this will help games where good D players are on one side, and no D players on another. If the server is 6v6+, which happens often daily, then there's a better chance of the teams both having at least one decent D player.

I can appreciate your intention there but the very purpose and nature of building that defense changes. What you want to avoid are stacked teams. Disabling damage doesn't affect that...you will still get teams that are stacked. And without it, what is the worst that happens? As Dark said below, one team gets the advantage early on, rapes the base, caps out and the game ends quickly and you move on to a different map and different team. Defense is always good but in practice you simply aren't going to build defense to protect things that don't need protection. On big maps where you have multiple switches to capture in different towers spread apart, the first team to get there and put up D is likely going to keep them for the duration of the game. And if there are invs already in those towers, well then it is almost totally pointless.

What would be great is if you can develop some sort of rating system that automatically joins you to a team to balance them out based on the ratings of those playing and keep it balanced that way. But without that, maybe admins could actually do something to move players around when they see them stacked, change the map, or at LEAST even teams out when they become unfairly balanced (7 on 3). I complain that I don't usually see the admins doing that when I am on. Having the ability to destroy gens and invs is part of the game...an important part which as I said, changes the strategy of every game when its not there.

[Ashy_Larry]

I wouldn't necessarily agree Ashy. I could begin the map by raping your gens and continue doing so the rest of the map. The rest of my team would rape your flag or vice versa. Makes for a quick and boring game. I did this just the other day for 5 maps in a row. I'm pretty sure the other team was not having fun.

Something tells me that disabling damage wouldn't have changed anything....you're just too damn good!

[DaRk]

You're right, it may not have. Especially with such low numbers on teams. I think a rating system would definitely help. To make an accurate rating system, I believe would be very difficult. You would probably need to take into account different aspects of a player's skill and more importantly how they apply it. Even so, some players are hard to track accurately. Take me for example. Some maps I will just spawn rape/cap. Some maps I will offense or defense snipe for the most part. Some maps I will go heavy and attack and/or rape. Some maps I pull a STU. Some maps I just play around and do random things that does not benefit the team or provide viable stats. A map last night I grabbed the flag 6 times successfully, but only capped it once. I passed it to Scarecrow who received the points. In short, or as S_hift says, I fight like a Brazilian. I think it would be hard to overall make an accurate rating systems. Some players are great on D, but terrible on O and vise versa. I think the idea is a good one, but implementing ranking players programmatically difficult.

[DaRk]

And speaking of STU. He can make a big difference on some maps buy causing havoc the way he does and change the outcome of a map. However, stats will not really show this very well. He is however, just an average (give or take) without an airbase or indoor map. I also do not know how you would deal with smurfs.

[vistalize]

Sounds like Noob mode if a team can't keep their gens up they obviously need to get better. Its all timing I promise u I can get a bwall up wit 3 lasers b4 u can get to my gens oh and a port. I can see both sides of the arguement but at the end of the day we have to see it w for what it is we are making the game easier bc of noobs

[S_hift]

Alright so I notice that when players drop below 5 v 5, base damage automatically disables. I want to try to explain why I think this creates some problems which are common sense. The strategy of tribes is not just defending / capturing a flag but defending an entire base. This may sound like an insignificant distinction but it is not. Whether or not my gens and invs can be destroyed is a fact that changes the way every single map is played (with exception of bloodbath) If my gens can't be destroyed, then I don't have to spend time protecting them. My offensive strategy obviously changes. I can't do anything to stop my enemy from throwing up defenses. The game then becomes quite one-dimensional. The way I build my defense then can also become quite careless and less planned. How often is the game actually at 5 v 5? For a good part of every day, there quite simply aren't that many players on. And then in the middle of a game, you get 5 v 5 and all of a sudden the whole game has to change because you already built a defense on the premise that the gens were not able to be destroyed...then it switches. And as this happens repeatedly in a game, it gets annoying very quickly. The efforts made all of a sudden don't matter. You spend 15 minutes trying to break the defenses of an enemy base, get to the gen and all of a sudden someone leaves the game, base damage is disabled, and your time and contribution to the game was totally wasted. What happens when teams are uneven, when instead of 5 v 5, we have 7 on 3 or 6 on 4 instead? We have a voting option to enable/disable base damage. But it does no good when the number of players force the system to override the vote. Why have the voting option at all? We really ought to be supporting mods that enhance the basic and overall strategy of Tribes, not alter it and I don't think this is a change that enhances the game at all but rather makes it less fair for all and certainly more confusing and difficult for new (and old) players. I hope to get some feedback and to see this changed back to the way it was.

Exactly. That's the perfect word for it. One dimensional. The only problem I have with your post is the lack of paragraph separation. Other than that you expressed your frustration rather eloquently.

Sounds like Noob mode if a team can't keep their gens up they obviously need to get better. Its all timing I promise u I can get a bwall up wit 3 lasers b4 u can get to my gens oh and a port. I can see both sides of the arguement but at the end of the day we have to see it w for what it is we are making the game easier bc of noobs

Why the fuck would you want to do that? You know why the dodo bird went extinct? Because it was a big fucking noob. It was soo dumb that it couldn't survive. Do large birds exist today? Yes. Why? Because they learned to adapt.